True Blood – Bill and Lorena, Sitting in a Tree…

“There is something I must tell you.”
Here came the Big Bad. His cool fingers twined with mine, and without wanting to, I held his hand hard.
I couldn’t think of a word to say, at least a word that was safe. My eyes fixed on his.
“Bill was summoned to Mississippi,” Eric told me, “by a vampire—a female—he’d known many years ago. I don’t know if you’ve realized that vampires almost never mate with other vampires, for any longer than a rare one-night affair. We don’t do this because it gives us power over each other forever, the mating and sharing of blood. This vampire…”
“Her name,” I said.
“Lorena,” he said reluctantly.


And so begins the downhill slide of Bill Compton.

In the opening chapter of Club Dead Bill is withdrawn and secretive, spending more and more time on his computer and less and less time giving Sookie the attention she feels she deserves. Sookie is hurt and confused at this sudden change in his demeanour, wondering what could possibly be big enough to cause Bill to lose interest in having sex with her. As it turns out, Bill is slightly preoccupied with matters involving other women – Sophie Anne has him working on a secret database, secret even from his girlfriend and his boss. And Bill’s maker – a vampire with whom he had a long, intense and unusual relationship – is calling him to return to her. Sookie knows nothing of Bill’s maker, let alone the extent of their long history together or the power she still exerts over him.

Bill eventually goes to Lorena, and ends up kidnapped and held at Russell Edgington’s. Sookie turns to Eric for help finding him, and Eric calls in a favour from Alcide. Sookie’s horny hormones do what they do best..and you all know the rest.

Cut to True Blood, and things are decidedly screwy in Alan Ball’s alternaverse. Bill’s maker, Lorena has already made an appearance in Dallas. While she is still in love with Bill, her reappearance in Bill’s life is due to Eric’s intervention rather than any inclination of her own. Bill appears to loathe Lorena with a passion he never had in the books, and Lorena and Sookie have already faced off and are well and truly aware of eachother’s existence. Lorena has “released” Bill, though what that means exactly is yet to be explained. Such a concept does not exist in the books – maker and child are bound until final death. This makes alot of sense to me, but what the hell do I know.

Based on what has transpired between Lorena and Bill on True Blood so far, I had written off any hope that Bill would betray Sookie with Lorena as he did in the books.

But then…then Mariana Kloveno gave this interview.

First of all, there is this comment about Bill:

…the hardcore Sookie and Bill fans are going to have some rough road up ahead. Bill has an interesting arc this season, yeah, that’s all I’ll say, but you’ll see different shades of vampire Bill than what we’ve seen before.”

Pedestal, and Big Long Fall are the first things that come to mind. But since we’re all pretty much expecting that, this isn’t such big news.

What has really been driving me crazy about the beginning of season 3 is how Ball will have Sookie hook up with Alcide when there has been none of the set up with Bill that preceded this in the books. This is very risky territory for a TV series – if it’s not handled properly, the audience could very well end up viewing Sookie as cheating bitch and lose sympathy with her altogether. With Bill being held and no other factors in play, Sookie playing around with Alcide is flat out cheating. She doesn’t have the “get out jail free card” that Book Sookie had, namely that Bill had cheated on her and dumped her first.

Without any of that set up, Ball HAS to have Bill do something that will make Sookie and Alcide palatable to the audience.

So let’s go back a bit.

Back to the SFP in the season 2 finale. The SFP that seemed so random, ill-timed, and out of left field. Even if you’re a Bill lover, you cannot argue in any rational way that this marriage proposal made sense. I know this – I’ve read forums and Bill sites discussing the proposal, and when you scratch past the grand romantic gesture it represents, not even the most devout have any explanation that gels with the plot. They didn’t see it coming and even though it wets their panties no end, they’re as dumbfounded as we are as to how it fits into the story arc.

Bill was kidnapped thinking that Sookie was about to turn down his marriage proposal. I’m 100% sure that Lorena is behind the kidnapping, since Russell Edgington is appearing in season 3 and the suggestion in the books was that Edgington was behind the whole thing and Lorena was just his pawn.

Kloveno has revealed in this interview that Lorena will show us she is capable of controlling herself and learning from her past behaviour:

“I think in this season … she may surprise you a bit. You’ll see, or you think you may, you think that she’ll do something horribly evil, and she chooses not to, which I really love, and I think it’ll maybe surprise people. Not as monstrous as maybe once perceived.”

It seems that Godric’s “Vampire Morals 101” lecture to Lorena in season two was anvil-style foreshadowing. Lorena may be about to see the light, realising that she will only ever have a chance with Bill if she changes her ways.


So where do we find ourselves if Lorena starts showing a willingness to change because Bill has (and she has totally come off as desperate enough to do that, so far), while Bill is thinking that Sookie has rejected him?

Could Bill – who let’s face it, is not known for his ability to control himself in the face of temptation of any kind – end up having a moment of weakness just long enough to screw himself over?

Could that proposal have been nothing more than a plot device, designed to set up the kidnapping and create an emotional and physical separation between Sookie and Bill so that the playing field is left open for both of them?

I’m really starting to wonder now whether Bill and Lorena are the lost cause on True Blood that I thought they were. What we’ve seen from Ball so far is that he takes the basic premise of the book story and he twists it. Sometimes he strangles it beyond redemption, but sometimes he does get it right (Eric and Godric for example) and I’m prepared to give him credit when that happens. Lorena having an attack of conscience would be unpredictable – but not out of character. We only know Lorena through Sookie in the books, and Sookie was understandably hostile.

This could open the door for Bill’s betrayal and Sookie’s relationship with Alcide in a way that bookies wouldn’t expect. I really love Lorena on True Blood, and it would be great to see facets of her character that Charlaine couldn’t show us in the books because of Sookie’s feelings about her.

102 Responses to “True Blood – Bill and Lorena, Sitting in a Tree…”

  1. 1 Kealeagh
    February 11, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Awesome! I think you’re dead on! The fact that Bill is uneasy and confused about his relationship with Sookie, like Sookie was in the books, just might lead him to stray. That would be AMAZING.

  2. 2 sunnynala
    February 11, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Great topic, I’m glad you’ve brought this up. Ms.Klaveno’s spoilers are ineresting to say the least.

    Lorena has “released” Bill, though what that means exactly is yet to be explained.

    Seems to me Bill couldn’t leave Lorena’s side until she released him. Also, it seems a child is not obligated to obey a maker who has released him. I think it’s pretty much as simple as that, though the blood bond between the two still allows the maker to sense and track the child.

    As for any sort of relationship developing between Sookie and Alcide, I wouldn’t count on that at all. I think they will have a subtle flirtation, but if Eric brings in Alcide to help Sookie because of an debt he owes, I think it’s safe to say Eric will warn Alcide against any shenanigans.

    Pedestal, and Big Long Fall are the first things that come to mind.

    Oh yes, Bill is going to be revealed as a Big Bad for sure, and the delicious beauty of it is the clues are all already in place so the BB’s can’t cry foul. None of it will be coming out of left field. It’s their own damn fault they have refused to face the reality of who Bill is and have swooned over a ‘hero’ that doesn’t truly exist. People do this in politics all the time, as we have seen, and this might be Ball’s point.

    Kloveno has revealed in this interview that Lorena will show us she is capable of controlling herself

    This is something I’ve argued about on the TB wiki. I believe all vampires have the ability to control their basest instincts–if they don’t it’s because they have made a choice, just as humans do. To me, vamps are SUPER humans–humans basically with supernatural powers who should be judged the same way as we would a human who has special gifts or powers or privileges–iow, how would you behave if you were given the ability to do anything you wanted to do without consequences? This is a lot of power and how a person repsonds to that question is a test of their character. Bill for one has miserably failed this character test.

    • 3 VampirePamsGirl
      February 12, 2010 at 5:39 am

      “As for any sort of relationship developing between Sookie and Alcide, I wouldn’t count on that at all. I think they will have a subtle flirtation, but if Eric brings in Alcide to help Sookie because of an debt he owes, I think it’s safe to say Eric will warn Alcide against any shenanigans.”

      Eh, I don’t know about that. AB has hinted pretty heavily that there will be something happening between Alcide and Sookie. And I know I saw one interview where he said that Bill/Sookie shipper and Eric/Sookie shippers would not be happy this season. So I think we may see Sookie get some warm-bodied lovin’ myself. I don’t think it will be a major relationship, but I think it will probably go beyond subtle flirtation for sure. JMO. 🙂

      • 4 Hookah
        February 12, 2010 at 6:13 am

        ugh..well why the hell would he set out ahead of time to piss off all the viewers? Alcide seemed like a charming guy in the beginning, but I think he turned into a huge douche as it went along..so do not want to see Sook/Alcide tryst..bleh..I’d rather see a whole episode of Sook’s recovery at the Mansion..and what could’ve been if Bubba hadn’t stuck his head in the window at the worst possible time!!! Sookie would’ve totally given in!!

        • 5 VampirePamsGirl
          February 12, 2010 at 6:31 am

          I absolutely agree about Alcide. He was alright in the third book, but by the end of the fourth book I couldn’t stand him. The first word that comes to mind when I think of book Alcide is hypocrite. So I’m not looking forward to the Sookie/Alcide thing but I figure that is where AB will go.

          I also absolutely agree that there should a whole episode of Eric helping Sookie recover and hey there is no Bubba on TB to interfere! 😉 Happy times, happy times!

  3. February 11, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    I can only hope. The SFP made absolutely no sense, and I’ve spent a lot of time wondering about Beel’s motivation. Trying to tie Sookie to him to prevent interference? From Eric? The Queen, Lorena? To prove his “devotion” to the Queen’s cause? To try to do something that would really stick in Lorena’s craw? *shrug*

    The only person I know that liked the SFP was my husband – who has never read the books and has absolutely no inkling of what the story COULD be. He wasn’t confused by it in the least and apparently seemed to go right along with the plot line to him. So perhaps that was something that definitely was not directed at the Bookies and was more for the benefit of the people that are into the show for the “out of left field” aspect.

    (Although, I do have to add that during the scene before Eric et al. rush the FotS church and they have that “I don’t love silly human Sookie” conversation, my husband suddenly stilled and turned to me with wide eyes. He said, “It’s all about him, isn’t it? This whole damn thing comes down to him in the end.” I just gave him a little smile and turned back to the TV.)

    • February 11, 2010 at 2:50 pm

      my husband suddenly stilled and turned to me with wide eyes. He said, “It’s all about him, isn’t it? This whole damn thing comes down to him in the end.” I just gave him a little smile and turned back to the TV.)

      Ha! It’s ALWAYS all about him, isn’t it? Oh that’s classic.

    • 10 sunnynala
      February 11, 2010 at 2:55 pm

      My view of the proposal is this:

      Everything Bill has done to lock Sookie up for QSA comes down to tying her to HIM. The blood bond, the lies, the proposal, everything. So, I’m thinking his orders from QSA are to bound Sookie to HIM as tightly as possible, even to the point of controlling her thoughts and perceptions, so that he can turn her over to the queen at the point she is completely under his control. It’s not likely she would willingly agree to be a telepathic bloodbag in the queens court, so everything Bill has done has been geared toward turning her into a mind controlled slave, in a way, who feels she has no choice in the matter. Proposing to her was done in part to manipulate her emotionally because of her own conventional views of marriage, but I also think the ring came from QSA and that it has a ‘compelling’ spell attached to it,(which explains her bizarre change of mind in the bathroom) which might be an avenue to bring in Hallow.

      Anyhoo, when Bill and QSA realized Eric is a real threat to their plot to trap Sookie, the proposal part of the plan was moved up in the timeline, which is why it seemed sudden and out of the blue, far too early in the game of controlling Sookie and much too early to count on Sookie saying yes on her own, which is why the ring had to be enchanted.

    • 11 Kristen
      February 11, 2010 at 5:57 pm

      OMG! My husband is such a huge freaking Bill lover and it drives me nuts!! He has never read the books and refuses to believe the knowledge that I continually try to force on him about Bill’s intentions (I know – I shouldn’t be telling him this stuff, but I can’t help it!)

      He finally came around to what bad ass Eric is the last 4-5 eps of Season 2, but it took sooooo long. He still harbors a secret hope that Bill and Sookie make it happen though. He asked me the other night, while re-watching “I Will Rise Up”, “Wait don’t you HAVE to love Bill there??” I proceeded to tell him, “I don’t love Bill there, I don’t love Bill here, I don’t love Bill anywhere!” =)

    • 12 Cara_Dawn
      February 11, 2010 at 7:27 pm

      “It’s all about him, isn’t it? This whole damn thing comes down to him in the end.”

      Nice. He’s ahead of the curve when it comes to most of the BLs out there.

  4. 13 Kristen
    February 11, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Okay, so here’s another question – are we positive that TB Sookie and Alcide will have the encounter they had in the books? I mean, I know that they are supposed to have chemistry, but are we sure that AB is going to go down the whole make-out, let’s date, no let’s not date road?? To me, the main focus of CD was certainly not the brief interlude that was Alcide and Sookie.

    I completely agree that, if AB does follow the path of Book Sookie, he is going to have some pissed of TB fans on his hands who no longer care about what happens to Sookie. And yes, I agree that Bill could possibly cheat on Sookie with Lorena still, BUT how would Sookie know that and therefore have the Get Out of Jail Free card she had in the books? In CD, there has been some foreshadowing and then a flat out admission from Eric that Bill was planning on “pensioning Sookie off” so how are they going to accomplish telling Sookie about Bill’s infidelity if it happens while he’s kidnapped?

    • February 11, 2010 at 3:01 pm

      Okay, so here’s another question – are we positive that TB Sookie and Alcide will have the encounter they had in the books?

      Just after Alcide was cast, both JM and AB gave interviews that were pretty clear on the fact that the Sookie/Alcide thing would play out with the big lust that was there in the books.

      I don’t think they’re going to sleep together, I didn’t mean to imply that. Just that the big lust will be there and Sookie will be very tempted.

      In CD, there has been some foreshadowing and then a flat out admission from Eric that Bill was planning on “pensioning Sookie off” so how are they going to accomplish telling Sookie about Bill’s infidelity if it happens while he’s kidnapped?

      It could play out in a similar way – Book Sookie had absolutely no idea what was going on with Bill when he disappeared either. Bill had contacted Eric to “make arrangements” for her and that was how she found out he was back with Lorena. I’m guessing she could find out from a third party (though I hope not Eric since that will just be another black mark against him *roll eyes*). It could also come out after he’s rescued…I think there’s alot of room for them to play here. CH was vague about what went down here. All we have is Eric’s version…which is probably the truth with a few holes 😉

  5. 15 Stephernutter
    February 11, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    I can’t remember where I read it, but isn’t Bill supposed to be free of the kidnapper(s) by episode 6? That leaves lots of time for Sookie to find out about Bill’s infidelity. I don’t really know what they’ll fill the rest of the season with though.
    I definitely like the new theory. And MK’s new interview is VERY interesting

    • 16 Kealeagh
      February 11, 2010 at 4:26 pm

      Yes, I think I saw somewhere that Bill will be free by episode 6 too. Which begs the question – what the hell is going to happen after that?

      • 17 sunnynala
        February 11, 2010 at 4:33 pm

        My theory? Bill smells Eric on Sookie because of the blue boxer incident, goes apeshit and tries to attack Sookie and/or Eric, Eric puts him in his place, and then the shit really hits the fan when Bill turns Eric in to the magister for selling V because he had the temeritiy to ‘come close’ to Sookie again.

        Which drags QSA into it, and while they’re all present before the magister the edict comes out. Voila! B/S are no more.

        • 18 Kristen
          February 11, 2010 at 5:59 pm

          And then the last episode’s cliffhanger?? Eric running shirtless down Hummingbird Road and Sookster pulling over to pick him up!!! Yes, Yes, Yes! FTW!

          • 19 sunnynala
            February 11, 2010 at 7:08 pm

            For the motherfucking win! lol

            Btw Kristen, my husband and son are BL’s too, and think my theories are nuts. They make as many excuses for Bill as the BB’s do. IDK these people anymore. lol

            • 20 Jo
              February 11, 2010 at 11:33 pm

              then maybe you can help me and understand why so many men are so BLs (straight men) sometimes can be worse than a lot of girl out there, what they see in the Bill that makes hope for him, because I do not understand …

              • February 12, 2010 at 1:48 am

                I’ve noticed this too Jo, there are alot of men out there pulling for Bill.
                (My hubby isn’t one of them, he liked Eric even in season 1. But perhaps he just doesn’t want me to put him out on the street LOL).

                I think for some men, they see Bill as the “little guy” and they just root for that. Eric is the hot, smart, funny guy at highschool who stole all their chicks. He will always have the upper hand, Bill is the underdog.

                • 22 walgigi
                  February 12, 2010 at 3:10 am

                  Well, maybe mine is also brainwashed by me, because he also prefers Eric character over Bill hahhaa. He says Eric is a lot more complex character than Bill, and he also finds Bill’s “Sukeeh is mahnn” very inmature and annoying. But I do think men prefer the Bill “macho” image because Eric image, a vampire with so much power and so rational who also is able to show his feelings and cry without be ashamed of it, is kind of threatening for a lot of them… because most of the men aren’t willing to enter so freely and openly to the “emotional realm”.

                  • 23 Stef
                    February 12, 2010 at 5:33 am

                    I agree. There is the whole “emotional” dimension with Eric so far that it may be more off-putting to some men out there. But to me, it’s what makes Eric such a great character. With Bill…there’s nothing to him. He’s static, one-dimensional, and chauvinistic. But I know my boyfriend thinks Bill is completely ridiculous. He constantly makes fun of him with his “Sookeh is mine” and “I am vampire” routine. I got him started on Eric early on. LOL

                • 24 Kristen
                  February 12, 2010 at 8:06 pm

                  If I were honest with myself, I might like Bill as well if I’d not read the books… AB has painted a pretty little picture of his favorite man. Sure, there are moments when the darkness pokes through, but if you were ingrained with the idea that TB portrays – i.e. the Sookeh and Beel are meant to be – it’s easy to brush off Bill’s darker points.

                  Being a book reader before show watcher, I couldn’t stand Bill from the beginning – but I am not objective at all. The first time Eric came on screen, I cheered, and my husband was like “Whose that dude? He’s not ever gonna eclipse Bill…” He had no conception of the books, so he WAS objective. So in a way, I get why non-book readers like Bill first season.

                  That being said, even my BL husband was over Bill mid-way through the second season. And again, because he is more objective, I use him as a meter to how the average person reacts to Bill. Alan Ball DID tarnish his star at least a bit. Enough for my husband to notice and start yelling at the tv, “Bill get your shit together!” =)

              • 25 Holby
                February 12, 2010 at 2:27 pm

                I think so many men are BLs because so many men are LIKE Bill (okay, not the homocidal, kill anyone who has ever touched you or stands in our way kind of like Bill, but you know…). Secrets are acceptable and, so what if someone told you to go procure the girl…if she’s hot and you like her it’s okay. Hey…isn’t that Alcide’s attitude, too??? Eric says, “Go escort this girl.” After he meets Sookie, he says, “NOW I don’t mind at all.”
                My point, and I know I have one, is that guys are okay with murky motivations if the end point is fine. Just like the attitude that omission isn’t actually lying. hmmmmm.
                Oh, and yeah, SVB, you are right…Eric represents the HS quarterback who always gets everything and every girl…so there is a tinge of jealousy there, too.

                • 26 sunnynala
                  February 12, 2010 at 3:37 pm

                  I also think it’s a tinge of jealousy. Bill is the underdog who ‘really loves’ (gag) Sookie, while Eric just wants in her pants. Well, that is how it seems on TB so far, doesn’t it? We can’t really blame people who don’t spend much if any time analysing the show and the motives of the various characters for thinking this way. There is no excuse for the BB’s, lol.

                  • 27 Kristen
                    February 12, 2010 at 8:10 pm

                    See?? This is the objective (i.e. non book readers) perspective! That Bill loves and cares for Sookie and Eric is just trying to “have” (read: fuck) her.

                    Charlaine had many more subtle hints and foreshadowing that allowed the reader to understand there might be a bit more to this sexy Eric character… and by the end of book 2, we’re all like “Who the eff is Bill? Gimme some more of that Viking…” And by book 3, it’s literally like “Where the eff is Bill?”!

                    And this is also another reason I want to kick AB for changing the Longshadow staking scene – viewers needed it to understand some depth to Eric.

          • February 11, 2010 at 7:21 pm

            Best. Cliffhanger. Ever.

            If I don’t get a “Turn around, lover” from a dripping wet Viking in season 4, I may have to fly to Hollywood and strangle AB personally.

            More on Alcide/Lorena/Bill when I’m not at work. So glad to see a new post up!

            • 29 sunnynala
              February 11, 2010 at 7:59 pm

              OK WTF?? **SPOIL ME SPOIL ME** and describe the scene of “a dripping wet Viking (PRINCE)saying ‘turn around lover’ ”

              I encourage ALL of you who read my message to write your own descriptions of the scene because I, umm, I am ‘dripping wet’ just from typing the sentence above. LOL

              • 30 Kristen
                February 11, 2010 at 11:13 pm

                oh oh oh – are you a Sookie/Eric shower scene virgin?? If so, you are a rare and wonderful thing though I don’t know that I can do the scene enough justice to pop your proverbial cherry… I will say that the effing SHOWER SCENE is an Eric lover’s steak and potatoes!! My book pages are so creased that sections of that chapter are starting to fall out!

                Hmmm… Sookie and Eric, Book 4, Hot and Steamy Shower, Mutual Bathing, Ripped Shower Curtain, and HOT HOT HOT First Time Eric/Sookie Nookie. Can someone else fill in the gaps?!

                • 31 lkc
                  February 11, 2010 at 11:21 pm

                  It is also the scene where the most famous “gracious plenty” term is coined. It, of course, is referring to Eric! If you read nothing else read that scene!

                  • 32 sunnynala
                    February 11, 2010 at 11:25 pm

                    Lol, I knew about the shower scene and the famous ‘gracious plenty’ line, but I’ve never read it before. I thought you guys were talking about ANOTHER wet Eric scene!

                    The damn shower scene HAS to happen! I hope all the Eric/Alex fans can stay out of prison for spousal rape the night that scene airs. Although, come to think of it, I can’t imagine any husbands filing complaints. 😀

          • 34 Hookah
            February 12, 2010 at 5:39 am

            One of the episodes should end with Sookie getting staked..and the cliffhanger? Yes! Kristen..def the naked viking running..and when Sook stops and calls out to him..he turns, hisses & lunges like he’s going to attack…CUT..BL’s will be peeing themselves!!! Well..those that don’t know about the hot soap-on-a-rope shower to come 🙂

              • 36 sunnynala
                February 12, 2010 at 3:40 pm

                (there was no reply button on your previous post to me!) Anyhoo, I own all of the books. I ordered them near the end of s2 and the minute I got them I decided against reading them so I packed them off with my sister, who has now read them all and is cursing her husband for refusing to order HBO. 😀

                • 37 Hookah
                  February 12, 2010 at 5:56 pm

                  oh Nala baby..you need to get those books back!!! You have no idea how much more obsessed you could be!! LOL..and Hookah thinks your sister needs to pick up the phone in June & dial her cable co and order HBO. “Husband won’t let her”?? What decade does she live in? Then again, I’ve always been Independent & Self Sufficient woman..no man will tell me what I can/can’t have..I have my own money-fuck that lol..I’ll get crazy in a minute over a controlling dude (and subservient women). Speaking of Beeehl..I am baffled about the SFP & his dealings with QSA. Why would he have Bill on a “Secret Mission” (database & secure Sookie) and have Eric on a separate “Secret Mission” (selling V) without wanting the other one to know about it? Eric is sheriff..isn’t that kinda 2 big things she’s keeping from him?

              • 38 Kristen
                February 12, 2010 at 8:10 pm

                This is perfect. This is good. This is right.


            • 39 VikingLover
              February 12, 2010 at 4:11 pm

              @Hookah: that would be a freaking AWESOME ending to S3!!!

  6. 40 walgigi
    February 12, 2010 at 12:26 am

    I really enjoyed Mariana Kloveno interview. It’s refreshing to know she has a so natural, sincere and down to earth personality in addition to her extraordinary talent as an actress. I love her character in TB because, villian or not, she knows William Compton better than anyone because she’s his maker (“You did always like to prey on the innocent”… “I hope he doesn’t pull the same shenanigans with you. There is no excuse for domestic violence”.) At the same time, being as older and stronger as Lorena is as a vampire, she is one the most vulnerable, because she is driven by love. The facts that she was able to go to Dallas just because Eric had called her and admitted to him she hadn’t seen Bill on over 70 years, and later risked herself to the public humiliation of his rejection, are enough proof of how madly “in love” she’s with Bill.

    Well, Sookie’s hormones was not the only reason of her attraction to Alcide in the books, because the lack of emotional depth in her relationship with Bill plays also an important point in her attraction to him. As long as we haven’t seen the original book story line about Lorena and Bill on TB, as you said, “Ball HAS to have Bill do something that will make Sookie and Alcide palatable to the audience”. Because I refuse to believe AB could dare to portray Sookie the same way he always portrays his leading women (as cheating bitches) on all his other works…


    [“The writers have put just a tiny little nugget in an episode that has just been released, which I can’t say, of course. …. She’s focused on Bill, and, as weird as it sounds, she’s motivated by love, and that’s where it comes from, and it’s obviously a different plane than the one we live in.”]

    [“The way that I look at it is that she kind of operates from a different set of rules and, in her world, she wants what she wants and humanity is something that’s not a part of her any more and she does what she needs to get that unrequited love, which kind of makes her a tragic character, which I love. What she wants will never want her back and the reason that he doesn’t want her is what she loves in him and it’s this horrible cycle.”]

    [“I think in this season … she may surprise you a bit. You’ll see, or you think you may, you think that she’ll do something horribly evil, and she chooses not to, which I really love, and I think it’ll maybe surprise people. Not as monstrous as maybe once perceived.”]

    As far as we know, Lorena and Eric are the only ones that would have reasons to kidnapp Bill. Obviously, Eric’s reasons were just a smoke ball. Given the fact that Lorena loves Bill enough that was able to release him when he threatened her with killing himself (I think that was the “tiny little nugget” she told about), it’s completely logic for me that she would face a real dilemma about torturing or killing him (or in letting anyone to do it). So, maybe it would be her who will release him if she’s was the one who kidnapped him or would be the one who helps Bill to escape if she’ll be just Russell pawn… Who knows? (I also wonder what “secret” could Bill hold, if she’s a Rusell’s pawn, because we din’t watched anything about the database in TB. If Rusell is behind Lorena, he has to have a reason… Or Bill has a secret that Rusell wants (Sookie?) or could he be Lorena’s maker and want to punish him for her humiliation at Dallas? Wasn’t that Eric’s fault because he called her to mess with S/B relationship?… blahblahblah. Sorry, these are my random thoughts trying to solve the puzzles, so I’ll try to control my ADDH and return to the original theme lol).

    I’m not completely sure if TB Bill is going to fall sexually or romantically with Lorena again because MK said:

    [What she wants will never want her back and the reason that he doesn’t want her is what she loves in him and it’s this horrible cycle.”]

    I can’t tell if she said that in a figuratively or in a literal sense. If it was
    figuratively, we could expect the monumental betrayal of Bill. If not, maybe the reason between S/B breakup will not be necessarily that he’ll fall for her again, but the admiration and loyalty he could begin to feel for her as his maker once she chooses not to do the “horribly evil act” everyone expects from her. Maybe Sookie tries to stake her to defend Bill and he does not allow it or something like that… who knows? I also think this could be foreshadowed when Eric also told Sookie:

    [The bond between a vampire and his maker is stronger than you can imagine. Perhaps one day you’ll find out”.]

    (As always, please forgive my writing mistakes because english isn’t my first language).

    • 41 VampirePamsGirl
      February 12, 2010 at 6:01 am

      I really agree with you about Lorena being vulnerable. I know she’s supposed to be a villain or whatever, but I actually really felt bad for her in Season 2. She just seemed very sad and lonely to me, verging on pathetic actually.

      I’m all for this Bill/Lorena idea. Instead of Sookie staking Lorena, Lorena should be rescued by St. Bill and they can ride off into the sunset on his white horse. And then we can all have happy shower time with the Viking Prince. Yeah, I know it won’t happen that way, but a girl can dream! 😉

    • 45 Holby
      February 12, 2010 at 2:33 pm

      I agree with your characterization of Lorena. Bill’s memory of how he was “released” was only one side of the picture. Her statement about how he always liked to prey on the innocent is good foreshadowing. With only one memory from Lorena and one from Bill, it is hard to say that he was not typically the initiator of their “games” with victims. Add to that the idea that he desperately wanted to shoot a teenager who had been wounded and then acted like a..a…oh, a scared teenager…and then Bill holds a grudge against the entire family for 150 years????? Might be some pathology there, ya think?

      Oh, and Gigi…English is my only language and I eff up all the time…I actually just attributed any errors to thinking faster than you can type because that is my downfall!! 😉

      • 46 sunnynala
        February 12, 2010 at 3:43 pm

        Bill is delusional and I do not believe any of the memories/flashbacks that come directly from him are accurate. While Lorena has him kidnapped, I think she’s going to force him to remember things the way they really happened.

      • 47 walgigi
        February 12, 2010 at 10:26 pm

        Ahhh Holby, thanks hon *Big Hug*… I always try to make my best in a way that everyone understand what I’m saying, but sometimes I write such a nonsense that I don’t understand myself what I wrote when I read it later 😛 hahhaa. And you’re right about thinking faster than I can type, so imagine to have a half translated concept or idea in your mind and be stuck with some key words you need to find to make yourself coherent 🙄 …LOL.

        [Might be some pathology there, ya think?]

        Well, according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV-TR) actually Bill character (in the books and in TB) fills enough criteria to have a rule/out diagnose of Antisocial Personality Disorder (people with this disorder are the ones formerly known as sociophats, though people stil commonly use this term). Research has shown that the sociopath is usually a person with an abundance of charm and wit. He or she may appear friendly and considerate, but these attributes are usually superficial. They are used as a way of blinding the other person to the personal agenda behind the sociopath’s behaviour. They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims through verbal, physical and sexual abuse. They seem to have an innate ability to find the weakness in people, and are ready to use these weaknesses to their own ends through deceit, manipulation, or intimidation, and gain pleasure from doing so. His ultimate goal is to create a “willing” victim. They are prone to pomiscuity, infidelity and rape, and a lot of other sexual behaviors. They have poor behavioral controls and show inadequate control of anger and temper with expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse. They are egotistical to the point of narcissism and have a grandiose sense of Self, and are pathological liars, in a so convincing way that are even able to pass lie detector tests. They are unreliable and are not concerned about wrecking others’ lives and remain indifferent and lack of remorse or guilt for actions that hurt or damage other people. They are irresponsible and incapable of either having the insight or willingness to accept responsibility for anything they do and also blame others for their actions. They seems to have deep problems with the authority figures and failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors. Their behavior is masked by a superficial social facade and when show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. They are remorselessly vindictive when thwarted or exposed. And these are just some examples of their behavior…

        Does this sounds familiar to anyone?

        • 48 sunnynala
          February 12, 2010 at 10:38 pm

          Yes it does, and it’s what I’ve been saying about Bill right from the beginning. I worked with victims of domestic abuse for years and Bill has power and control issues (google that term and you might as well put Bill’s pic on all the articles) just like every one of the abusers I came into contact with. Lorena talking about Bill’s ‘shenanigans’ of domestic violence were not as much foreshadowing as a ‘wake the fuck up, Bill is no hero he’ll beat your ass if you cross him’ hint hint hint.

          Bill IS a sociopath, a serial killer, a liar, an abuser, rapist,(yes, even so far on the show. Do you think the Chicago couple was willing to have sex with them after they got a taste of what was coming?)manipulator, narcissistic, (“Haven’t we done enough for Dallas?” Um NO. YOU hadn’t done a damn thing for “Dallas” and Sookie wasn’t asking you to do anything right then except stay put while she comforted Godric and Eric) and delusional. It astonishes me how many (real life) women worship him and make excuses for him, but that is always the way with these types of men.

  7. 49 KC
    February 12, 2010 at 1:57 am

    I wonder, if AB makes Bill’s betrayal dastardly enough, if TB viewers might just forgive Sookie for her annoying vacuousness, clinging and whining, especially if we see her grow and become someone we can admire a little as a result of the experience? Wishful thinking?

  8. 51 Pogonip
    February 12, 2010 at 1:58 am

    I have to admire your collective faith in AB and his team of writers. To me, it seems like they’ll have to navigate around the Horn to arrive at a place with some similarity to what you project. It would have been much simpler to follow (even loosely and with additional characters) the plot line of the books. Now, to arrive at the same or a parallel place, providing the setup for Bill’s decline and Eric’s ascension with Alcide’s “almost” arrival, the writers would have to be very, very creative!

    What is in store for us? Let me guess…..uh….Sookie and Lorena will become BFFs? Shop at Walmart together? Eric and Sam will get nekkid and romp between the sheets? But only in a dream sequence, I know.

    Up till now, we’ve had Jason simulating sex with (nearly) every female that crossed his bow. Will Season 3 be the season of simulated sex between Lafayette and his new squeeze, and Eric and Sam in dreamland? What else is on in that timeslot? Oh, never mind. I’ve got a few books I want to read.

  9. 52 Hookah
    February 12, 2010 at 6:00 am

    okay-I’ve only read all the books once so far..I was a late bloomer 🙂 but this new guy they are introducing as an orderly-Lafayette’s new lover?-Jesus Velasquez? Isn’t he like Stan’s right hand man of sorts? Maybe I’m confused & it was a similar name? Stan in TB wasn’t even a Sheriff & he’s dead already..wasn’t he around still throughout the other books? Sorry-I had Viking blindness..so many other characters took a backseat *blushing*

    I think one of the great scenes for Sook was when she staked Lorena..I felt like with each book, Sookie became more of a bad-ass..she lost so much of her innocence with each new trauma..and I think Eric actually gained alot of respect for her after that too..he was amused at the very least..”poor helpless Sook staking a Vamp”

    I took Eric’s statement “[The bond between a vampire and his maker is stronger than you can imagine. Perhaps one day you’ll find out”.] as more of a wishful thinking on his part..that one day Sook would be a Vamp..whether through his doing or not-unknown.

    • February 12, 2010 at 6:29 am

      Jesus Velasquez isn’t in the books. He’s totally AB’s invention. Stan was an area sheriff (they had Godric be the sheriff in the show) early on in the book – the FoTS attack happened at Stan’s nest, not Godric’s in the books. Stan eventually he became a King and he stuck around well past book 2.

      I took Eric’s statement “[The bond between a vampire and his maker is stronger than you can imagine. Perhaps one day you’ll find out”.] as more of a wishful thinking on his part..that one day Sook would be a Vamp..whether through his doing or not-unknown.

      I’ve seen a few BL’s reference this scene (and the dream sequence) as proof that Eric wants to turn her.
      When you watch this scene just before Eric approaches Bill and Sookie, they are talking about Bill being held in the hotel room. Bill is trying to explain where he was to a pissed off Sookie, and it’s clear as day that he is grossly uncomfortable and he doesn’t want to tell her because it means telling her about Lorena. Eric strolls up, and his comment was a direct dig at Bill – as in “Bill was really with his maker all that time, Sookie. Maybe one day douchebag here will tell you about her, and explain to you how these things work”.

      The conversation in the dream sequence – that whole thing was Sookie’s subconcious and what she believes about Eric. His telling her she would make a good vampire because she’s ruthless…well Sookie is ruthless, she just doesn’t know it yet.

      • 54 Anna Sifuentes
        February 12, 2010 at 7:25 am

        I really like what you have to say here…you pretty much nailed it on the nose. I agree with you too, sookies does not know how ruthless she is but she still has that innocence..or really what is left of it.

        In DG it is mentioned that Sookie will never be turned and then CH confirmed it. Why would she do that…i know E/S have not addressed it yet but she will eventually get older and die one day, why would she not want to be changed in order to stay with the one she loves, even if her life depended on it? I know not everything is suppose to have a happy ending but I really want it to end with Sookie being turned and happy with Eric.

    • 55 Holby
      February 12, 2010 at 4:20 pm

      I agree that Sookie killing Lorena is one of the crucial pieces of foundation for her empowerment as a strong heroine. I hope hope hope they get her away from the whiny codependent who runs over and grabs Bills arm at the first sign of danger/conflict/Eric’s hot sexiness!!! LOL

      • February 12, 2010 at 6:00 pm

        “Ahhhh no, Beehl! I cain’t take the Vikin’ no more! Save meh! He makes muh girly parts twitch! It must be da blood! Nooooooooo!”

        • 57 Hookah
          February 12, 2010 at 6:15 pm

          LMAO..oh that was great “muh girly parts twitch” hahahahha..torture right?

          • 58 VikingLover
            February 12, 2010 at 7:50 pm

            I really hope they bring back a more empowered version of Sookie in S3. I don’t know what the heck happened to her character on the show. In the beginning of S1 she was sort of bad ass and spunky – she fearlessly rescued Bill from the Ratray’s and when she first meets Eric, they show a little bit of the spunk Book Sookie has. Then it was all downhill once she and Bill started getting serious. I hope the separation from Bill in S3 will force her to stop being so damned dependent and stand on her own two feet. I just hope they don’t make Eric like Bill when it comes to Sookie. I hope they portray them as equals. Anyway, when she’s with Eric on the show you see more of Book Sookie then when she’s alone with Bill. It’s only at those moments that she doesn’t let Bill shut her up. I really loved the FotS scenes.

            You know which scene I really hated (well other than the gift and the proposal)? It was the bullet sucking scene when she finds out Eric manipulated her and she yells “Monster!” and runs into Bill’s arms. Ugh Ugh Ugh! That was soooo freaking annoying. Book Sookie would never have reacted that way.

            • 59 jo
              February 12, 2010 at 8:30 pm

              VikingLover, I fully agree with you, it was horrible, that he had just saved her life a second time! worse than what I did have a dislike so much the character who barely stand to look at pictures, I swear I avert my eyes every time! Sookie book could complain, but never, never speak it to a person who had just saved your life, sucking scene bullet or not

            • 60 VampirePamsGirl
              February 15, 2010 at 3:02 am

              “You know which scene I really hated (well other than the gift and the proposal)? It was the bullet sucking scene when she finds out Eric manipulated her and she yells “Monster!” and runs into Bill’s arms. Ugh Ugh Ugh! That was soooo freaking annoying. Book Sookie would never have reacted that way.”

              *standing ovation in agreement with this statement* VL, you totally nailed three of my most hated tv scenes ever!

              Like jo said, book Sookie would have never reacted like that. Even if she couldn’t stand somebody, she would remember to politely thank them for saving her life.

    • 61 VampirePamsGirl
      February 15, 2010 at 4:06 am

      Hookah, I kept thinking you were right about the similar name and I finally had a chance to look through my books. One of Stan’s right-hand men was Joseph Velasquez, but like SVB said and judging from characters descriptions I’ve read, Jesus Velasquez is going to be a completely separate character from Joseph Velasquez. Good point though, you definitely had me scratching me head wondering if that was the same name as in the books.

      • 62 Hookah
        February 15, 2010 at 6:08 am

        oh okay..so the names were really similar. And I’m pretty sure the Velasquez in the book was gay also-right? I’m guessing AB is basing it loosely off the book-only because there are so many characters he has changed/twisted for the show that are different in the book-whether by personality or situation.

        • 63 VampirePamsGirl
          February 15, 2010 at 7:27 am

          No actually the Velasquez in the book wasn’t gay or he was at the least bi-sexual. He was dating a human named Trudi that got half her head blown off when the FOTS opened fire on the vamps at Stan’s house in LDID. (I love having my books back! Lol)

          Your right that it could just be AB twisting and turning characters again. After all, I’m not sure I would have even recognized that Mary Ann was supposed to be Calisto except that they were both maenads.

  10. 64 VampirePamsGirl
    February 12, 2010 at 6:26 am

    “the audience could very well end up viewing Sookie as cheating bitch and lose sympathy with her altogether” -SVB

    This was exactly what I was going on and on about after that SFP! I hope your theories prove correct but I’m still wondering how they’re going to fix shit after that big ass mess. Honestly if I had to list the t.v. show scenes that I hate most that one would definitely be at the top of my list. Just every fucking thing about it! Talking about scene is one sure-fire way to get me started ranting….sorry.

    BTW, I’m really glad that you were able to post on this topic. I actually ran across this interview stuff before on a pro-Bill site. My first thought was I wonder what SVB and the gang will have to say on that topic. My second thought was snickering just a bit at the BLs reactions because yes I am just that much of a malicious bitch, but at least I can admit it! 😉 But hey, we ELs have had so much disappointment dished out by TB, it’s only fair that the other camp catch some too. J/K, mostly. Lol.

    Anyways, though, while reading some of their comments I actually felt a strange sensation…I think it may have been feeling just a little bad for AB. See many of them were talking about how if the show goes the same directions as the books did that they will quit watching it, just as they quit reading the books after the third one. It occurred to me then that AB and the other writers are kinda in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t place. You’ve got a portion of viewers that are threatening to quit watching if you keep it true to the books (ones that for some reason enjoy St. Bill I guess) and then you’ve got the other faction that want it to stay true to the books and will quit watching if you keep messing up our Viking and his scenes. So yeah no matter what they do they’re really going to piss some people off and I guess I just felt a little bad for them all, not enough to quit bitching about how they mess the show up, lol, but just a little.

    One final note here too, I think in this last paragraph I found the only plausible answer to the question I’ve been researching for a couple of weeks. BLs love Book Bill because they have blinded themselves to the reality of Book Bill. Like those that stopped reading after the third book, they realized what an ass he is and didn’t like so I guess they decided to ignore the third book and base their image of Bill purely on what happened in the first two (which still wasn’t a great character even then imho). I’m not dissing them doing this or saying it’s a bad thing, but it’s the only answer I can come up with. I can’t say that I wouldn’t be the same if for some reason CH decides to write Eric as the villain in the future, which is a horrible possibility we’ve all discussed on here before, but whereas there was only really one and half books building up Bill, she’s spent 8 books building up Eric’s character so I’m remaining hopeful on that front.

    • 65 Kealeagh
      February 12, 2010 at 6:43 am

      It won’t matter much if BL’s or EL’s quit watching since we only make up “5%” of the viewers. They can survive losing the two and a half percent, I’m sure.

    • February 12, 2010 at 2:11 pm

      I really don’t know many people that have read all the books and still are rooting for Bill and Sookie. Honestly. I think BLs are a breed of their own – they’re all gaga for TB Bill and it warps their perception of Book Bill. Yes, Bill does try to redeem himself to Sookie the past few books, and maybe he really did fall in love with her, but the fact still remains that he built their initial relationships on lies and mistrust.

      If TB takes the road of keeping Bill with a far more saintly bent, then I say live and let live – they can worship at his alter if they still want. I have to keep reminding myself that TB and the books are like alternate universes, where different outcomes will be expected from different actions. Maybe TB Bill will be worthy of some admiration, but it’s something that’s very difficult for me to get my mind around. It certainly doesn’t stop me from being all EL and loathing Bill, though!

    • 68 sunnynala
      February 12, 2010 at 3:46 pm

      One way or the other, AB is looking to PISS OFF a portion of his audience. I think he wants to create a firestorm of controversy over some upcoming revelations and it is not going to be fans of the Viking PRINCE who are unhappy. 😀

  11. 69 Mia
    February 12, 2010 at 9:12 am

    I’ll admit that I really enjoyed the Bill/Sookie chemistry in season 1 – particularly the first 6 episodes. I read the books after S1 and naturally preferred Eric afterwards. However I think even if I hadn’t read the books that I would have the same reaction to S2 Bill.

    It bothered me the way S2 Bill constantly grabbed Sookie and/or said her name in that “shut up” tone of his. Very controlling. I pointed this out to some friends who watch the show and thereafter, they would tell me “I thought of you” when this occurred in yet another episode. Next there was the total hypocrisy and deception of TB Bill. He tells Sookie in S1 that he only killed people “at first” but then S2 shows he spent some 60-70 years with Lorena killing people with cruelty and very obviously enjoying it. Additionally he doesn’t clue Sookie in to the added effects of vampire blood until after she has some of Eric’s even though she asked about the effects in S1.

    Then there is S2 Bill’s inability to take responsibility for any of his actions. He guilts Sookie into believing it is her fault that he had to turn Jessica into a vampire because of Longshadow as witnessed in later scenes outside Jessica’s home. It wasn’t Sookie’s idea to go to Fangtasia that night. He again tells Sookie it’s “her fault” for whatever he does at Jessica’s former home when it’s his neglect of Jessica that lead to this point. He’s violent enough to make Sookie think he’s about to kill everyone, which is additional psychological abuse heaped on Sookie.

    In flashbacks with Lorena, S2 Bill deems his decades of murder/torture of humans as Lorena’s fault; he was just trying to convince himself he loved her after all so he’s not really responsible for all that ugly death. Supposedly in the mid 1930s, he’s suddenly developed a conscience, but at what point was he hanging out with Liam, Diane, and Malcolm? He made reference that Diane was made vampire in the late ’30’s so only a few years later, he’s with them being “more fun” as Diane said in S1?

    I just don’t think S2 Bill is an admirable character; I certainly wouldn’t want to date someone who chronically tries to shut me down when I speak or manipulates me via guilt or implied violence.

    • 70 Jo
      February 12, 2010 at 11:00 am

      TB Bill bothers me much more than Book Bill, even though he had not read the books would not like Bill, what bothers me that many fans of Bill are in denial, S2 showed many disagreeable traits of his character, actually began in S1 Jessica when he created and then abandoned without remorse if he was as noble as they have taken since the beginning of its responsibility with it and would not have abandoned the Jessica!
      and then also “blamed” Sookie for it! I was thinking WHAT?
      you crush the life of a girl, did not bother with it and even blamed someone else?!? this is so typical of Bill, never taking responsibility for their actions …
      Another thing that annoys me is how he always holds the arm of Sookie telling her to shut up! how can one find a person so romantic and noble??
      Book Bill is annoying but still tolerate, perhaps because Sookie is not so naive or gullible as in TB
      PS: forgive me if I wrote something wrong, I’m not very good in English

      • 71 lkc
        February 12, 2010 at 2:16 pm

        Mia and Joe Your 2 posts really made a lot of sense and made me realize that AB does understand Bill’s character! He really did put book Bill in there in season 2. I guess season 1 was to pull everyone in, make them fall in love with B/S and all the characters of Bon Temps. Now that he is going to, hopefully, show Bill’s fall, it’ too bad that Bill Lovers (and really SM lover’s) didn’t pay attention to the signs.

      • 72 Holby
        February 12, 2010 at 2:57 pm

        You are both so right. And actually, book Bill, while whiny and a bit stalkerish, does redeem himself at the end. He proves that he is not just giving lip service to his devotion to Sookie. He becomes the ex-boyfriend that you can still respect (but not the one you can expect HEA because he’s so whipped he’s pathetic).

  12. 73 VikingLover
    February 12, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    You Guys all make such great points! Lena and Jo, you guys really have me thinking about TB Bill and AB. I didn’t realize all the lies that he has told in both Seasons! You guys are so right! I think (hope!) AB really does understand Book Bill and this “saint” we see is is all a manipulation. Actually, I really believe this just based on all the subtle clues and hints they’ve been giving us throughout both Seasons. I also think they were trying to set us up to draw us in to Bill/Sookie during the first season – just like the books I guess. To me that explains why they made Eric so unattractive in the first Season. That ugly wig, his face looked extra pale in some scenes, and his clothes were non-descript and even somewhat ill-fitting. Had they made him look as hot in S1 as he they did in S2 (when we are now supposed to think he’s hot) no one would have paid any attention to Bill.

    As to Lorena and Bill, I’m with Gigi in that I don’t think Bill will be sexually or romantically linked with her but I think he might try to save her instead. I think there’s going to be some kind of emotional connection. Plus, I really think she’s going to die in S3. My take is this:

    Sookie is TB Bill’s version of Book Bill’s database. He takes the job assigned to him by the Queen very seriously. This accounts for his obsessive/compulsive/repulsive behaviour. Yeah, I think he does fall in-love with Sookie mid-end of S1 and that just adds to his craziness. But all in all, it’s his duty to the Queen that makes him act the way he does. I think Lorena told Russell about the telepath to make him aware of what an asset she is. I think that’s why they kidnap Bill – for Lorena it’s a way to separate him from Sookie forever – especially if Russell plans on taking her from Bill and keeping him for himself and his MS business interests. For Russell, it’s leverage in order to get Sookie to come to him (and stay) because she will sacrifice herself for Bill. Plus, if supposedly there is bad blood (no pun intended 🙂 ) between Russell and Eric (since supposedly Eric is supposed to avenge someone), it will make the deal for Russell that much sweeter. The chance to gain an asset and steal it from Eric at the same time. Anyway, Russell and crew proceed to torture Bill and Lorena can’t stand it because she loves him too much. To Gigi’s point, she will try to save him. Bill and Lorena reconnect on an emotional level. I’m hoping that it’s Russell that tells Sookie about Bill’s betrayal and not Eric. Or maybe they’ll keep it like in the books and Eric will force Bill to tell her but they’ll make it clear it’s because he cares about Sookie and not because he’s an opportunist. Wishful thinking. *sigh*

    In the meantime, now Eric is screwed because he’ll be afraid that Bill will tell Russell about the V, he’s afraid the Queen will kick his ass for letting Bill get kidnapped with such knowledge (somewhat like the books), and he’ll have to protect Sookie from getting taken by Russell.

    [I also think this could be foreshadowed when Eric also told Sookie:
    The bond between a vampire and his maker is stronger than you can imagine. Perhaps one day you’ll find out”.]

    Gigi, that is such a great point! I never even thought about that meaning! I always thought it meant that Eric would turn her if he could (like in the dream sequence to SVB’s point). You guys made me rethink that whole scene! I have to watch it again. 🙂

  13. 74 KC
    February 12, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    [The bond between a vampire and his maker is stronger than you can imagine. Perhaps one day you’ll find out.]

    I thought for sure Eric was referring to Lorena and loved this little scene. Weren’t they cutting their eyes to each other? Eric’s sly look to Sookie, Sookie looks to Bill like wtf? (she is oblivious to the importance of a vampire’s “maker” and Bill’s been her boyfriend for *how* long?), and Bill’s look is wishing Eric dead. It reminded me of some spaghetti western;)

  14. 75 Dan
    February 13, 2010 at 2:14 am

    I really dislike Alcide.   In the last week I zoomed through book 5,6, and 7.   It really irked me how Alcide tried to make the pack think Sookie was his girl.   He started getting bossy and playing role of her man publicly before having a conversation with her about it.   For example, the contactor was at Sookie’s recently burned house to discuss the repairs.  Alcide acted like he was calling the shots.  Then when Sookie took a meal to Calvin Norris, Patrick Fernon told a house full of people that Sookie was Alcides woman.
    Alcide had created this public perception, without her consent.
    Then he moped when she told him, very nicely, that now was not to be their time.   Because of him, she was “summoned” to the pack master contest.   Sookie caught Patrick Fernon cheating and this was a huge favor to Alcide.  But his Dad lost to Fernon despite the cheating.  Alcide, though grieving his father, has the fucking nerve to blame Sookie.  That’s why I hate Alcide.   Maybe some women like a guy like Alcide who makes assumptions and acts on them.  But Sookie don’t play that way.  Eric has learned through trial and error, that Sookie is to be treated as an equal.  Sookie has learned through trial and error, that she should Eric’s judgement most of the time.

    I quickly wanna mention this too.  Damon, from Vampire Diaries, he is an evil bastard and I hope none of y’all have sympathy for him just because of his looks.   I will go balistic if Elena switches to him.   He is a blatant killer who cares nothing about human life.  Stefan would get the blessing of Vampire Jesus Godrick.   Elena belongs with Stefan.  Period.

    • 76 Maria
      February 13, 2010 at 2:32 am

      I agree Dan, I cannot understand why there are people out there who are rooting for Alcide and think he might end up with Sookie. He’s got issues and the fact that he dated a psycho like Debbie Pelt shows what kind of person he is. He also left Sookie when she got staked and hooked up with Debbie again, after seeing how she treated her (like burning Sookie’s wrap, which was such a crazy thing to do). It was Eric who stayed by her side yet again.

      • 77 VikingLover
        February 13, 2010 at 6:04 am

        I agree with Maria and Dan. I HATE Alcide. He left Sookie to die in CD, hooked up with Debbie that very night (not knowing if Sookie was alive or dead), and forgave Debbie for almost killing Sookie by pushing her into the trunk of a car with a starving and hurt Vampire. Not to mention the fact that he then kicks a wounded Sookie out of his apt when Debbie shows up. He conned her into going to the Colonel Flood’s funeral just so she could listen in to Patrick Fernon’s thoughts. Alicide’s a user and a liar.

    • February 13, 2010 at 11:07 am

      I quickly wanna mention this too. Damon, from Vampire Diaries, he is an evil bastard and I hope none of y’all have sympathy for him just because of his looks. I will go balistic if Elena switches to him. He is a blatant killer who cares nothing about human life. Stefan would get the blessing of Vampire Jesus Godrick. Elena belongs with Stefan. Period.

      Oh Damon. I do love me some Damon, I will admit. He’s cheeky, naughty, impulsive, bad, intense and yes, very easy on the eye. But yes, he is definitely a ruthless killer with ZERO impulse control. Nonetheless, I see alot of Eric in Damon – perhaps a less evolved Eric. He is capable of feeling – I think Damon actually feels too deeply and that’s his problem. His obsession with Katherine, and also his willingness to trust Elena, and even Stefan again in the last ep even after they’d both just sold him up the river…I think Damon’s ruthlessness is a result of how deeply he feels, rather than a lack of humanity if that makes sense.

      I think that as with Eric’s character, there is much to be mined with Damon. He has potential to evolve, to become better. I just find that sort of character more interesting I guess.

      I’d like to see him and Elena hook up for a bit, but at this point you’re right, she’s better off with Stefan. It kills me to say that because I don’t really like Stefan. Too much Bill for my liking – he’s paternalistic, he withholds things, he is in denial to some extent about his true nature.

      I’m really loving the Vampire Diaries as a series – they’ve got their core characters, and they’re sticking to their story like glue. The character and plot development has been so tight – the writing is cohesive and sensible and they’ve correctly identified what is core stuff and what is periphery. And they allocate air time accordingly.

      True Blood writers TAKE NOTE.

      • 79 Dan
        February 14, 2010 at 3:37 am

        Well since you & I disagree little on the Viking, I could draw a line in the sand on Damon, but this is your board.  And your board ain’t about the Vampire Diaries.   I admit I posted that hoping you would disagree with me.   I will defend Stefan.  Neither of us are into the books on this one, but I have read enough summaries to learn Damon never changes, and Stefan remains a saint.   I see zero resemblance to Bill and Stefan when it comes the TV.  Yes he did not tell Elena up front who and what he was but I think he had a damn good reason.     Interestingly, the CW is budget TV and this this show is elevating them a notch.   Pretty sure their writers and other talent don’t get paid like an HBO crew.  I wish the writing teams would get reversed.

        • 80 Jo
          February 14, 2010 at 4:12 am

          well, I wanted to take these comments if I may, I watch Diariess Vampires, and although it is not crazy about him, I liked the development of the story and I agree about the writers, but always wanted to comment that I think the Elena Stephan and more mature as a couple and characters compared to Bill and Sookie TB, even in interviews the actress felt more understanding of the characters, that Elena always questions the Stephan and does not look like a fool, like how she expresses her opinion, although it is not crazy about Stephan I like your way serious and I agree with Dan about it, as to Stephan … he says nothing to me, although I think he is obsessed with Katherine, and not by Elena

        • 82 arakha
          March 31, 2010 at 4:09 pm

          As a massive Damon fan and a Vampire Diaries book reader, I could not disagree more with your statement that “Damon never changes”.

          For one thing, in the bookverse, he isn’t nearly as “evil” as he is portrayed on the show. He killed a teacher at the school because the teacher was coming at him, and was blamed for a lot of murders/ bad things that happened, when later on it was revealed that it was actually Katherine who did these things. In fact, he often helps out the “gang” when he has no vested interest in doing so. For example, when Bonnie and Meredith try to summon Stefan for help, not only do they get *him*, but Damon comes along as well. Then, LJ Smith allows us more insight into his character in The Return trilogy. And what do we find? A vampire capable of love and honour and the desire to protect, not only Elena, but her friends as well, at any cost.

          In the show, he can be quite callous and cruel, and believe me, even for a massive Damon fan, it was hard to like him at times. But the writing/ acting/ directing has been wonderful in somehow managing to evoke sympathy for a character like him, not even just among fans, but people who didn’t like him initially. Even in showverse, even now, he is far from being unredeemable. He has been obsessed with one goal for 145 years–rescuing/ being reunited with Katherine. He would go to any lengths to do so. Yeah, he’s a little crazy. But he also doesn’t have the benefit of synthetic blood or willing fangbangers like True Blood vamps. Feeding on unwilling humans is necessary for survival. Yeah, I know he kills people when he doesn’t need to. But if you look at the killings he’s done on the show, there is always a reason behind it. They may be self-serving/ avenging reasons, but at the start, that’s how he rolls. And come on, this is a vampire show.

          And I don’t love him any less. His character IS the show, IMO. And I don’t doubt for a second that Kevin Williamson and Julie Plec will make him even more sympathetic by the end of the season.

    • 83 walgigi
      February 14, 2010 at 7:32 am

      Dan, I respect your opinion, your dislike and hate for Alcide. Actually I understand your feelings because is well known here my dislike (ok.. my hate lol) for AB. But I have to respectfully disagree with you about some points you’re adressing that aren’t exactly accurate acording to the canon. I’ll try to be brief (yeah… sure LOL) because I already made a post about Alcide.

      Even when I love Eric character and his growth through the 9 books, I can’t say his judgment always has been in Sookie’s best interest. He begged her to search for Bill in Jackson because his job and his life were at risk, and he didn’t think at that moment how emotionally vulnerable she was and that he was risking her life, as the incident where she was hurt with the stake shows later. If he went later as Leif because no one knew him in Jackson, couldn’t he went himself with Alcide first? Sookie didn’t needed to stay at Alcide’s, he was a completely stranger, so why didn’t he pay a hotel room for her? I can’t keep out of perspective that was Eric himself who brought Alcide into Sookie’s life when he put her in his hands, after calling him a “scum” just because he was a Were. Was this an error of judgment from Eric? Well, maybe in fact it was for most of people here. And if I can accept that Eric, who is a vampire so logical, rational and powerful as he is, was able to make an error of judgment, I can accept that a werewolf as Alcide also was able to make another error of judgment when in a full moon night turned himself into a wolf to run after Newlin when saw he was with the man who hurt Sookie at Josephine’s. Moreso, because he is half HUMAN. And we humans make a LOT of errors of judgment every day.

      Alcide didn’t tried to make the pack think Sookie was his girl, and never created any public perception without her consent. There was a point on the story where he said to her he wanted them to get used to see her with him because he had, and SHE knew it, intentions to develop a relationship with her. But long before Alcide told Sookie this, in CD it was the same Sookie the one who “made it public” and suggested they were more than friends, even when they weren’t really dating, just to challenge Debbie (and getting herself into trouble…):

      [Debbie was casting many glances our way, so I leaned forward and smoothed back a lock of Alcide’s curly black hair. He looked surprised, though of course Debbie couldn’t see that. “Sookie?” he said, rather doubtfully. I smiled at him, not my nervous smile–because I wasn’t, for once. Thanks to Bill, I now had a little confidence about my own physical attractiveness. “Hey, I’m your date, remember? I’m acting date-like,” I told him.]

      [“Who’s your new friend? Did you borrow her for the evening?” “Oh, longer than that,” I said clearly, and smiled at Debbie, a smile that matched her own for sincerity.]

      [“Tell me,” Debbie said, her lips curling in a skeptical way, “how do you like that birthmark of Alcide’s?” …. “I love bunnies,” I said, still smiling, my hand drifting down Alcide’s back to caress, very lightly, the top of his right buttock.]

      [“Janice never sends anyone out looking like they live in this century.” Alcide opened his mouth, rage tensing all his muscles. I laid my hand on his arm. “What do you think of my hair?” I asked softly, moving my head so it slithered over my bare shoulders. I took his hand and held it gently to the curls falling over my chest. Hey, I was pretty good at this I Sookie the sex kitten. Alcide caught his breath. His fingers trailed through the length of my hair, and his knuckles brushed my collarbone. “I think it’s beautiful,” he said, and his voice was both sincere and husky. I smiled at him.]

      IMO, a date doesn’t imply a longer relationship and acting date-like doesn’t need to include intimate physical touch in a public place. So, why does she needs to touch his hair, to caress his buttock or move his hand to the curls over her chest? And the fact is that she actually enjoyed to do it… After that, they had the incident with the Were gang and RE, as well as everyone related to him believed she was his date. And when Eric wanted to go to Josephine’s, he told Alcide:

      [“I will be at the club tonight. If I need to talk to you, Alcide, tell Russell that I am your friend from out of town, and I’ve been invited to meet Sookie, your new girlfriend.”]

      He also told Russell when Sookie was hurt:

      [“I’m a friend of Alcide’s,” Eric repeated. “He invited me here tonight to meet his new girlfriend. My name is Leif.”]

      Later, in DTTW, when they found Adabelle Yancy dead at Verena’s Rose Bridal Shop and the cops were interrogating them, Alcide was took by surprise when one asked him why did he stop there, and Sookie answered she was looking for her wedding dress. The cop asked her if they were going to be married and Alcide hugging her said “yes” and she smiled… and they both began acting “very enganged” about the engagement ring blahblah. Obviously it was only pretending, but Alcide is a very well known man in his community and the rumor spread like wildfire, so is obvious for me that Patric Furnan thought, along with a lot of people, that it was the truth (and that people also includes Maria-Star because later she showed to have problems in finding a way to tell Sookie she was dating Alcide).

      About your perception of Alcide getting bossy and playing the role of his man with the contractor in DAAD, I have to remind you it was Randall and not Alcide who began to talk to him:

      [Randall was pleased to meet Alcide, whom he’d known by sight, and Randall was even more eager to take on rebuilding my kitchen when he knew I was a friend of Alcide’s. The Herveaux family carried a lot of weight personally and financially in the building trade. To my irritation, Randall began addressing all his remarks to Alcide instead of to me. Alcide accepted this quite naturally.]

      And when Alcide noticed Sookie was angry, he apologized for it:

      [Alcide, catching sight of my face, broke off his discussion with my contractor and looked guilty. “Sorry,” he called. “Habit.”]

      And the fact is that Sookie were acting very offended and angry with him and even rejected his later offer to move with him (while having a memoir of her Gran telling her she was acting like a child), but suddenly, at some point on their dialog you can read:

      [“But,” Alcide continued, “I can prove I didn’t. Four pack members have sworn I was at Pam’s house after Debbie left, and one female will swear I spent the night with her.” He had been with the pack members, just somewhere else. I slumped with relief. I was not going to have a jealous spasm about the female. He wouldn’t have called her that if he’d actually had sex with her.]

      Is Sookie a hypocrite? Some people could think so because this isn’t the first, nor the last time she is thinking something completely opposed as the way she’s acting and talking. Everyone here is always asking why we can notice Eric loves Sookie and she’s always thinking it’s the fairy blood and the BB, blahblah. Is she a hypocrite? Well, she is. To herself. Because what she’s doing is what in the psychological field we know as Rationalization. The cognitive distortion of “facts” to make them less threatening. A common HUMAN defense mechanism very frecuently used that consists in attribute our actions to rational and creditable motives without analysis of true and especially unconscious motives. Or, in simple words, to create an excuse or a more attractive explanation to not feel overwhelmed by the truth. The problem is that Sookie pretty well believes her own excuses, her own lies and she isn’t learning and growing while she persists in using this defense. And I hope she overcomes it, because she is drifting away from living in reality where she can see things as they really are to make correct decisions in her future.

      Sookie wasn’t summoned to the packleader contest because of him. She was summoned as friend of the pack, and the reason she became a friend the werewolf pack of Shreveport was because she helped them, as well as the Vampires when the problems with Hallow began. BUT, the fact is that before Sookie helped them, she called Alcide first to ask for his help when Fangtasia was raided by Hallow, and he acted accordingly to what she expected from him. Anyway, she wasn’t the only one summoned, because Claude and Claudine were there, too. Did they expected Sookie to help them with her telephaty? Hell yes. Christine Larraby was expecting it and Alcide hoped it, too. Because friends expect their friends’ help when they are in need. Well, at least I expect my friends to be there for me if I need them, because friendship is a two way street, and I also were there when they needed me.

      And Alcide hadn’t the fucking nerve to blame Sookie for his father’s death because he never SAID it.

      [… what I’d seen in Alcide’s head after the whole debacle was over. Alcide thought I’d failed him…. Alcide, in his grief and rage, was blaming me. I was trying to be angry, but I was too sad.]

      There is a HUGE and MONUMENTAL difference between thinking and saying. One is master of ones silences and slave of ones spoken words. Because if there is something that has no turning back and can’t be reversed, besides death, that is a spoken word. We actually think everyday a lot of stupid, irrational, malicious and ridiculous thoughts, and the only thing that save us to be considered the worst scum of the universe is that we NEVER say them. Anyway, we HUMANS aren’t telephats to be able to see or hear the mind of someone who is in grief for the loss of a loved one, and some of us had experience it, but somehow we can’t recall all the thoughts and feelings we had the same way we had it. And if the event is recent, we aren’t able to make an accurte coherence between thoughts and feelings to express with words how we feel (and the word “grief” falls short to describe it). Because we are only feeling P.A.I.N. An emotional pain so fucking HUGE and OVERWHELMING that one actually feel it physically in the middle of the fucking chest. I can’t tell if any of you know what it is like, but I know it by self experience. Do any of you really think people can be rational under this kind of pain? I can tell you no one can (unless is someone who has some kind pathology). And it is perhaps for this reason that the funeral homes are such a lucrative business for some of its owners. Because most of us are sooo rational under that kind of circumstance that they are able to sell us coffins that cost several thousands of dollars based on their “time warranty”, as if we were able to take them out to use them again… Did any of you had the experience of witnessing how someone kill one of your parents in front of your own eyes without been able to do anything to stop it? Thanks God I didn’t (and pray never will). So I’m not the one who’ll judge Alcide about it. And apparently Sookie didn’t judge him either even when as a telephat saw his thoughs blaming her on that moment, because she didn’t hold this against him. She couldn’t even felt anger against him, only a deep sadness. Why? Well, because if anyone could understand his HUMAN feelings and thoughts, and felt emphaty with him in that moment, that was her… because she also found her Gran viciously murdered in her own kitchen. And that’s why she, with the kind of wisdom that can only be learned through experience, also said:

      [I’d gone to hug him, but when I’d neared him and met his eyes, I’d known. That hurt, and it hurt bad; but today wasn’t about me and my feelings.]

      And Dan :/, I’m very sorry but I have to inform you that Sookie pretty much also plays the game of make assumptions and she also acts on thems, because as I said above, she needs to rationalize a lot. And just to give you two examples (because if I’ll give you more than one, this will have the lenght of another doctoral thesis and someone could think of killing me because this post is too long LOL) I want you to remember how afraid was Sookie to tell Eric she killed Debbie because she thought he was going to use that information to gain more control over her. And now, in the very first chapter of DITF, she is thinking he would bring up into their relationsip the issue about her mortality…

      On a last thought, and to give credit to CH, between the words of this story there are very deep and HUMAN truths that concerns us all. I’m not pretending to play the devil’s advocate because I don’t see it just as a love story, but a sups micro world that reflects the macro of our own human world, our own human societies. So please lol, never ask me what team I am in, because I’ll have to answer that I love Eric for been a vampire who is able to grow because loves Sookie so much that actually almost forgets he is indeed a vampire, and that I love Alcide because he has been growing through painful experiences because he is as human as you, me and Sookie, and besides been both sups, that’s why she can identify so deeply with him. And ultimately, I am actually team Sookie, because after all the pain she had in her life, that girl really deserves to have some happines in her life. As we all, despite our virtues and defects, deserve some, too.

      • 84 Maria
        February 15, 2010 at 4:48 am

        Maybe my memory is rusty but I thought Eric asked Sookie to stay with Alcide so people (like the supes at Josephine’s) would believe they were together. Sookie would not be able to go to the club by herself; she needed Alcide to gain entry. Also, Eric sent Sookie so she could read minds to find out where Bill was. Eric and his people could not find Bill themselves so he had to get Sookie involved to pick people’s brains in order to locate Bill. Eric went to keep an eye on Sookie and it’s a good thing he did because Alcide ran off while she was lying on the floor bleeding. So I didn’t see it as bad judgement on Eric’s part to send Sookie to Jackson.

        • February 15, 2010 at 4:57 am

          It’s been a while since I read Club Dead Maria but that all sounds about right.
          There was definitely a ruse with Alcide and Sookie to appear as a couple so she could get into the club.

        • 86 walgigi
          February 15, 2010 at 10:27 am

          Eric never asked her to stay with Alcide so people would believe they were together. Eric didn’t even said his name (LOL), he just said to Sookie:

          [I’m sending you a contact tomorrow. He lives in Shreveport, but he has a second apartment in Jackson. He has friends among the supernatural community there, the vampires, shifters, and Weres. Through him you can meet some of them, and their human employees.” …”This man is a Were,” Eric said carelessly, “so he is scum. But he is more reliable than some others, and he owes me a big personal favor. “He’ll take you out and about in the vampire community in Jackson, and you can pick brains there among human employees…]

          It was Alcide who told her later at her house:

          [“It won’t be suspicious if I go there. I always drop in when I’m in Jackson. You’ll have to go as my date.”]

          So, my point again is, Do you really have to stay with a stranger to pretend be dating him??? No one even cared about who she was, because she went as his date, and I really doubt vamps at Josephine’s investigate every date who go there with a sup… Couldn’t Eric pay for a room in a hotel for her?

          Sookie needed Alcide to gain entry to Josephine’s because she was human, but any other of Eric’s vampires, even him also could go there with Alcide first. When Alcide asked Eric if it wasn’t risky for him to go there and be recognized, he said no one knew him there… and in fact he went by himself, alone and no one there cared -he just told Alcide to said he was his friend if he needed to talk to him when they were with RE. According to CD Eric and his people had not search yet in Mississippi for Bill. They only paid for information from some witnesses from Anubis Airlines and they knew RE people seems to be the ones who took Bill’s coffin. And they “thought” RE people weren’t going to talk…? But what about the “glamour” power vampires have over people? Isn’t it a weapon they use to get information from people? He had not exhausted the resources he had before sending Sookie there. And as I said before, if he could go there later by himself or as a friend of Alcide, he or even Pam also could go there with him before risk Sookie, and only use her as the last resource. At least, that’s my opinion. Because I can’t loose the perspective that within the context of when this happened in the story, Eric was very attracted to Sookie and had begun to develop feelings for her, but wasn’t in love with her yet (as to risk his life for her like all the times he does later) as his words shows when they were finishing their conversation the night before Alcide’s arrival:

          [“To answer your question: I am your friend, and that will last as long as I can be your friend without jeopardizing my own life. Or the future of my area.”
          Well, that laid it on the line. I appreciated his honesty. “As long as it’s
          convenient for you, you mean,” I said calmly, which was both unfair and inaccurate.]

          I’m not telling Eric did any of this on purpose. What I’m telling is that he was so desperate trying to find Bill and the database because his ass was in danger with SA that he indeed made some mistakes of judgment managing this situation. And just to gave another example about how erratic Eric managed this situation, let me remind you he was going to send her to search for Bill without telling her that Bill had betrayed and had left her for Lorena (and only did it after Pam insisted). Of course he didn’t wanted to hurt her more by telling it… But can you imagine Sookie’s shock if she knew about it in Jackson??? Can you imagine how dangerous it would have been for her life??? At least Pam as a female knew better and insisted that she needed to know before sending her there.

          He’s not perfect and he is also able to make mistakes. And knowing that helps me to see him more as a human and not just as a vampire.

      • 87 VampirePamsGirl
        February 15, 2010 at 6:58 am

        Gigi, for once I finally have to disagree with you. Perhaps, like Dan, I am a more emotional reader and I’m definitely not as smart as you, or as able to analyze and look objectively at characters, but I cannot stand Alcide. I see what you are saying about him making mistakes and growing, but for me he just doesn’t make up for those mistakes. In these books, nobody is perfect, which I guess is part of what makes them so good. But imho characters like Sookie and Eric, that learn from their mistakes and past expereiences, are the ones that garner my appreciation, not ones like Alcide. I also get what you are saying about not judging him for his actions, especially at the packmaster’s contest, but what do we do when we read except for judge the characters?

        I didn’t have a problem with him in Club Dead, even when he ran off and left Sookie at Josephine’s, though I was secretly glad that he did and that Eric got to step in and save the day but that’s my Eric-bias talking there. But there were little things there that should have clued me in to the fact that I’d eventually dislike him. His fatal flaw I believe is Debbie. He just doesn’t learn when it comes to her and that keeps him from being right for Sookie. Alcide even acknowledges this problem himself. “Why do I care about her? I’m not sure I even like her.”

        Yet even after Debbie has lied to him and left him for an owl (a freaking owl!) he still takes her back and apparently their reunion had to occur sometime while Sookie was recovering from being staked. I don’t blame Alcide for changing into a were and chasing the FOTS member out of the bar, I do blame him for spending at least part of the night with Debbie. (pg. 227, “Alcide’s warmth filled the room. So did the confused tangle of his thoughts. He’d spent part of last night with Debbie, all right.” pg. 229 “Happiness had made Alcide a lot easier to read. He was thinking about hwo soon he could call Debbie.”)

        It was at this point that Sookie explained to Alcide how Debbie had tried to kill her. Then when Debbie showed up, she and Alcide argued and broke up again apparently. He did apologize to Sookie when he stopped by her house in Bon Temps and I really liked him when he explained to Sookie that he’d told Debbie to “go fuck herself” when she asked him to kill Sookie. Though I have to point out that even after all this, he’s still somewhat blind when it comes to Debbie cause he says that there’s no way she could have killed the dead-closet-were cause she’d doesn’t have the ‘grit’ to kill somebody. But all in all I ended Club Dead, overall thinking Alcide wasn’t a bad guy, just kinda dumb.

        Then in DTTW, despite that last conversation with Sookie in CD, Alcide was back together with Debbie the first time he appears in the book. (pg. 95- “Omigod, he’d gotten back with his nasty rotten fiancee, Debbie Pelt.”) Then it comes out that he believed Sookie had gotten back with Bill because Debbie told him so. Sookie’s feelings during that conversation were pretty much on par with my own. “And you believed her?” and then Alcide admits it was dumb and says that he’ll deal with Debbie. ” ‘Right.’ Pardon me if I didn’t sound very convinced. I’d heard that before.” It was during the course of this day that Sookie realized that a relationship with Alcide would never work until he could see Debbie for what she was and interestingly enough it was that night that Sookie went home to Eric and a quite wonderful shower.

        Later in DTTW, when the weres and the vamps all congregated at Merlotte’s, Debbie appears again and lo and behold, she and Alcide are quite together, even though she had lied to him once again and he was going to “deal with it”. And though he did turn to her with an appalled expression when her farewell to Sookie was “Bye, bitch” she’s present once again when they all assemble to take out the witches because she is Alcide’s woman. It turns out to be a good thing because Alcide seems to finally see the light and he abjures her. I think it’s ridiculous that it took him that long to believe that she had tried to kill Sookie and once again Sookie proves how much better of a person she is than I am because I’d have been screaming “I told you so” so loudly that they’d have all had to told me to shut up, not to mention that I’d have been massively pissed that he hadn’t believed me in the first place and didn’t believe it until Bill told him and told him that she’d joined in torturing him in MS.

        Now DAAD starts out pretty good, Alcides seems to realize all his past mistakes and seems to be getting over his Debbie thing and he asks Sookie to attend Colonel Flood’s funeral with him. It seems like a good thing, even when he offers to drive her himself it seems merely chivarlous. Then Sookie starts to clue in on the way there. “I had an uneasy feeling that there was a lot more to know about Colonel Flood’s funeral ceremony.” That was the time that Alcide first really began to get in my black books. To me, it was then when he first started using Sookie. He explains very little to her about the whole process; she has to learn much of it from Christine Larrabee, who informs Sookie that they are just the eye-candy for the Herveaux men and that Alcide wouldn’t have chosen her for his companion if she wasn’t something “extraordinary.” When Sookie confronts him about all of this and he confesses that he wants her to read Patrick Furnan’s mind and that’s why he brought her with him and then Sookie asks him why didn’t he just ask her to do this and he tells her “I thought you might feel like you owed me anyway!” It was his actions and words then that led me to hate Alcide.

        After this (and after Sookie telling him to stay away) he has the audacity to show up at her house and get all pissy that she didn’t call him for help when her house burned. Because she totally should have called him when their last interaction consisted of him tricking her into doing something and being mad at her for killing his no-good ex that he had abjured. As for him talking to the contractor Randall, instead of letting Sookie speak for herself, I agree that Randall began to speak to Alcide first and that Alcide did apologize for that, but Alcide really had no damn business even being there in the first place and when Randall began directing questions at Alcide, he should have at least remembered to include Sookie in the conversation. I mean, it’s not like it’s her house or anything, or her time that’s being wasted while they ‘talk shop’ or her money paying the contractors.

        As for Sookie beings all angry and offended with Alcide, refusing to move in with him and being a hypocrite. Well, I’m not denying that Sook is a hypocrite (really when you think about it, who isn’t?) but in this instance I don’t think she earned that title. She was angry and offended with him for good reason. He tricked her, insulted her, showed up out of the blue and yelled at her, and then expected her to want to jump into a relationship with him. Sookie didn’t try to deny that she had feelings for him. “In fact, I more than like you.” She told him that, but she also calmly, rationally pointed out that he still was not over Debbie, nor was he over the fact that she was the one that killed Debbie. My own personal feelings about this part of the story are that Alcide made this offer to Sookie partly because he does care for her and want to help her, but also largely in part to the fact that he wanted her help in his father’s bid for packmaster. He told her before that he would do anything to help his father. He tells her in this conversation that “You need me now. I need you now.” I very much feel that he was not talking about needing her in an emotional/physical love type of way.

        Anyways, it was only after all this and after Andy stopped by to piss Sookie off a little more, that she began acting a little less than civil towards Alcide. It was only then that she had the thought that Gran would have accused her of accused her of acting like a child. That memoir made her be able to turn and face Alcide and try to be polite, again being a better person than I ever could cause I’d have totally flipped him the bird by that point and told him to get the hell off my land. Sookie wasn’t willing to jump into something with Alicde when she wasn’t completely sure they were both ready for it. SHE learned from her mistakes.

        Now I don’t dispute that being a friend of the pack was what meant that Sookie had to be at the packmaster contest, but it was Alcide (along with Christine and his father, I’m sure) that directly invited Sookie and implicitly (through gestures and previous actions) led her to point out Furnan’s cheating during the contest which eventually led to Jackson Herveaux’s death. They didn’t ask Sookie to do what she did, they expected her to because she was a friend and she did it because of that fact and because she couldn’t stand Patrick Furnan by that point. But it was the second situation that Alcide had deliberately put Sookie in and expected her to do what he wanted without him even asking her. This time he did this knowing that it had upset her the first time around. This time it didn’t end well for him. Now I can certainly appreciate that he was in a bad emotional place right then, but I personally cannot help but be irked that he placed all the blame on Sookie. I do feel bad for him at that point, but his previous words and actions make it more difficult than it should be to have sympathy for him.

        The next time we hear from Alcide is weeks later and only through Maria-Star that Sookie finds out that Alcide has apparently moved on from wanting to have a relationship with her at all. I have to point out too that when he offered this, she didn’t say no, but just not right now. Anyways, he’s pretty much had it with Sookie and she didn’t ever really do anything to him, opposed to how things went with him and Debbie, i.e. him forgiving her time after time of her being a total bitch. The point here though is that I understand him being too angry and upset at first to realize that his father’s death was not Sookie’s fault, but after a few weeks he should have had time to put that behind him and apologize to Sookie. The fact that he did not just leads me even more to believe that it was more selfish than not when he asked Sookie to live with him and have a relationship with him.

        Of course, everyone has their own POV, but I just cannot see the growth in Alcide that you do. In fact to me, he seems to regress through the series. Now Eric… well, I’ll be the first to admit that he’s far, far, far, far away from perfect, but as you said he has grown because of his love for Sookie. When comparing the two of them, I can’t help but think of Alcide’s offer to let Sookie live with him, but only at a time when it would benefit him (not discounting the fact that it would have been helpful for her as well, but I still don’t think he’d have been so quick to offer if he hadn’t needed her right then) and then when Eric wanted her to stay with him, with no discernable gain to himself other than having her closer to him. In fact, Sookie even acknowledges that it would probably be inconvenient for him, yet he tries to give her what she needs/wants, but doesn’t press her into doing it or trick her into doing things his way when she refuses. It is things like that, that make Eric the only acceptable HEA for me.

        *Sorry for the length once again! and the mistakes because I’m too lazy to proofread this essay!* 😀

        • 88 walgigi
          February 15, 2010 at 11:11 am

          HAHAHAHA Well VPG hon, as I told Dan, I respect your feelings and your opinions, and as any of you, I also express mines. And I’m not asking anyone to change his or hers for mines. But the fact is that I’m not going to debate here more about Alcide, because I already made a post about him a month ago where I discuss the points your making reference here. I have to wait until it can be re-post. But as I say before, your opinions are as valid as mines. 😉

    • 89 VampirePamsGirl
      February 15, 2010 at 3:58 am

      Wow, Dan, you’ve really sparked a good conversation here. I love it! 😀

      I have to agree with SVB when it comes to Damon. I had to cringe when I read your comment because I knew I’d be one of the ones disagreeing with you on this one. I have lots of sympathy for Damon, but not because of his looks (though I do think he’s gorgeous but that’s besides the point).

      Damon is what you say he is, but I can’t help but see more than that in him. A chance for redemption perhaps. I don’t think that Damon is really inherently evil.

      I also really think that Katherine and his love/obsession with her really screwed him up. As a human/new vampire, I think there were really only two people that Damon truly cared for…Katherine and Stefan. Then he lost one (or at least thought he did) due to the actions of the other. So he changed, became something his brother would hate, did things to try to hurt Stefan as much as losing Katherine hurt him. Anyways, the point to all this rambling is that for me Damon is a product of his experiences and feelings, but I have to believe that he can become more than what he is.

      I think that’s part of what leads us like characters like him, the need to believe that we can be forgiven despite our past sins. I think that’s part of why the rooftop scene with Godric in TB was so very powerful. When Godric asks Sookie if she believes in God and if she’s right then how will God punish him and she replies, “God doesn’t punish, God forgives.” We all want to believe that if creatures such as Godric and Damon can be forgiven, then we can as well. Okay, I know I’m getting waayy too philosophical here, sorry for that. I think I started to psychoanaylze myself there and why I’m drawn to certain characters though. Maybe this is what a weekend of little sleep will do to you.

      Also have to agree with SVB that I see a lot of Eric in Damon, even down to the sense of humor which is one of the things that I love about them both. Plus, I really don’t think that Eric always was what he is now. He’s had more than a thousand years and the experiecnce of falling for a human to help him evolve. Just my two cents. 😉

      • 90 Dan
        February 15, 2010 at 4:23 am

        I agree with regarding the attraction of redemption, but thus far there has been none. I do not compare Eric to Damon. There is not one single example in the SVM of Eric being a ruthless killer. People just assume it’s true. In DAG Eric is talking about his young vampire days and says “at first I killed, even when I didn’t mean to”. Sookie’s narration continues that killing is some new vampires do, but mature ones just take a drink”. And in Vampire Diaries Damon says “take a drink, erase their minds”. But see at least two instances of him draining an
        innocent to death, recently the wife of the new history teacher. The grieving husband is in mystic falls for revenge and I hope he gets it.

        But the comparisons to Eric. No. We have no evidence Eric was ever that evil.

        • 91 VampirePamsGirl
          February 15, 2010 at 7:19 am

          There hasn’t been redemption for Damon yet, but I do think there will be eventually. I hope. 🙂

          You’re right that there is no empirical evidence that Eric was ruthless or evil, but I think it is implied. If not evil, then definitely not good. Especially in the first part of the series, he does have a clear lack of regard for humans and their lives. For example, from LDID:

          “And rather than put all our human employees to death or torture, we thought perhaps you would look into their minds and tell us who it was.”
          He said “death or torture” as calmly as I said, “Bud or Old Milwaukee.”

          And then:

          “And suddenly, I was in his thoughts. He was thinking he could make me do what he wanted, anywhere, anytime, just by threatening Bill or some human I loved. But he wanted to mainstream, to keep as legal as he could, to keep his relations with humans aboveboard, or at least as aboveboard as vampire-human dealings could be. He didn’t want to kill anyone if he didn’t have to.”

          In different circumstances, I think Eric could be very much like Damon. No I don’t think that Eric is as evil as Damon, but I definitely believe they have enough similarities to warrant comparison. Like I said, that’s just my opinion of it, and you know what they say about opinions 😀 But I do love that we all have this forum to share and debate with others.

          • 92 Dan
            February 15, 2010 at 9:58 am

            I am enjoying this little side bar too. Its all good. (-:

            I am aware that Charlaine has said in interviews that Eric is a killer. If the interviewer is going to seek information relevant to the story, she is going to practice propaganda. I know I would If I were a widely read author. If she were to say “Eric has a good heart” that does not help her cause at all.

            I think Eric did what I refer to as “stiche” or playing the role. He used fear as a weapon. But he had no Alan Ball created dungeon. He and Pam were far from ever believing humans were equal but there is more power to be had in mainstreaming. I love the book #7 scene were the vampire Michael gets staked right there in court for harming the humans under the other vampire’s protection. My belief is that Eric has always killed when it was necessary, but he never got joy from it.

            When I first came to this board, SVB thought it was unusual to find a straight guy that did not hate Eric as the kinda of guy that screwed the first girl you ever cared about. I don’t see him that way. However, I do despise the whole concept of the “bad boy” There is a difference between being a bad boy and having confidence. I respect confidence with character. I see that in Stefan, Edward Cullen, and when you tear down his front, Eric.

            I did buy the third book in the Vampire Diaries series, and it started out with Damon doing some evil shit and I learned through summaries that Elena did go to him temporarily, but she ended up feeling so bad about it (because Damon still had no redeeming qualities beyond his flash and glamour) that she died somehow and came back as part Angel to be with Stefan. It was way too weird to continue reading. So for this series, only what we see on TV counts, which is becoming the opposite of True Blood for some of us. I see Damon as a Villian. And I am stomping my foot on the ground like a four year old because people are pulling for the Villian. (-: There was a brief moment, when they tried to get the tomb open the first time, when he said he would behave now. But that was a lie. Now he is all broken hearted. I suppose its possible we will learn that Elena IS somehow Katherine re-incarnated and the “real” Katherine may take over Elena’s body. Something weird like that so Damon will get his time with that gorgeous actress. Man, I watched that show at first just to look at that girl.

            • February 15, 2010 at 11:16 am

              I think Eric did what I refer to as “stiche” or playing the role. He used fear as a weapon.

              I totally agree with this. The most glaring example was in Club Dead, when Bill first went missing and Eric was working Sookie over to see what she knew. That scene is really telling – you can literally see him use every technique he has on her to see what pushes her buttons, trying to work her out. “I have always been fond of you – plus I want to fuck you” (seduction), “I could torture you until you told me the truth” (fear and intimidation), “You won’t always be so afraid of me,” (friendship)…he really pulls out all the stops and changes tack repeatedly trying to find something that works. I love this scene btw, just because he is really putting in an effort to find out what makes her tick, and he is obviously totally suckered in, even at that point. It’s blatantly obvious he had no intention of torturing her or hurting her, but he certainly wasn’t above letting her think that he did if it meant she’d co operate.

              I guess my view of Damon is formed completely by the tv series, I know nothing of the books and I probably won’t read them. The similarities I see with Eric are in the way he enjoys being a vampire, he loves the power that it gives him. His sense of humour, and his charm. His directness. His ability to manipulate to suit his own ends (though I will grant you that Damon is much less ingenuous about it than Eric…again coming back to the idea that Damon is a much less evolved version of Eric).

              I reckon we probably all agree on what Damon is now – a villain, and a ruthless killer. I think the point of departure is probably whether or not he could be redeemed. I can see it, but I can also see why you don’t because Damon is a shit, really he is.

              I’m not pulling for him in the same way I pull for Eric. But I’m curious to see how – or if – he could evolve through Elena. Even if E and D aren’t the main game, like I see Sookie and Eric.

              Nina Dobrev is quite stunning isn’t she? My hubby caught a scene while I was watching last week when she was playing Katherine and she was rolling around the bed with Damon in the black and red corset…he stopped dead in his tracks and said “THAT is how a female vampire is supposed to look!” LOL.

              • 94 walgigi
                February 15, 2010 at 12:41 pm

                [That scene is really telling – you can literally see him use every technique he has on her to see what pushes her buttons, trying to work her out. “I have always been fond of you – plus I want to fuck you” (seduction), “I could torture you until you told me the truth” (fear and intimidation), “You won’t always be so afraid of me,” (friendship)…he really pulls out all the stops and changes tack repeatedly trying to find something that works. I love this scene btw, just because he is really putting in an effort to find out what makes her tick, and he is obviously totally suckered in, even at that point. It’s blatantly obvious he had no intention of torturing her or hurting her, but he certainly wasn’t above letting her think that he did if it meant she’d co operate.]

                HAHHAHA It is called Desperation… he was so desperate to find the database and/or Bill, that he tried it ALL (you forgot to add the “snuggling” (tenderness…) LOL

  15. 95 Dan
    February 14, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    It’s really difficult to disagree with you Waigigi.   When I made my post about Alcide, I was acting on pure emotion.  You have a talent of detaching from the literature and looking at it from a clinical POV.   I would not be suprised to learn that you have mental health degrees and/or work in such fields.

    The night i made that post I had just re-listened to DAAD for probably the fourth time.   ***BTW the audio books affect me deeper on an emotional level.  That’s what I want to experience.   I am very emotional about Sookie.   Listening to Johanna Parker read I can easily feel like it’s Sookie telling me the story over the phone **** I know Sookie has flaws but experiencing the emotion is the entertainment I gladly pay for.  I too, root for the Viking.  He continues to earn my respect.   I have no lust for him but I seek to adapt his better traits, especially the tenderness he now shows to Sookie.   I don’t identify myself as being on any team, either.  As for the suitors, I probably identify myself as more like Sam, but wishing I could be more like Eric.

    I want what my emotions tell me will make Sookie happy, and that’s Eric.   Not sure if you have noticed, that while I don’t defend Bill, I don’t join in on the Bill bashing, either.

    The dislike many here have for Bill, I have reserved for Alcide and Quinn.   It’s my emotion making these decisions.
    Yes I have read what you and others have said about Bill.  I won’t argue with any of it.  I just won’t kick the man when he is near death at the moment, perhaps redeeming himself.  Not enough to get back into the running as a suitor.  But if Sookie forgives him, so will I. 

    Since that post, I listened to DTTW again and got mad all over at Alcide, despite the fact that Maria Star Cooper had just died.  She was about to move in with Alcide.  But again in his deep emotion he tells Sookie “your making this up” and she read his anger about the fact she had been with Eric the night before.  I like it when she tells him to F off and storms out.

    It’s emotion.  And while I admire your ability to detach, I do not want to do the same.   If I don’t use emotion
    here, I may do something stupid, like pay attention to Politics.    

    • 96 morrissa
      February 15, 2010 at 9:44 am

      Warning to everyone: I’m about to get very serious now, so if you don’t like to read depressing shit, stop right here.


      “Not sure if you have noticed, that while I don’t defend Bill, I don’t join in on the Bill bashing, either.”

      Well, Dan, I’m not sure I completely understand what you mean with “bashing”, but let me take a shot at explaining this for you. And Dan…please don’t take this any more personal than you feel you have to. You just happened to be the token straight guy here.

      You are a man, and a straight man at that.

      Which means that you don’t risk getting thrashed, ripped or killed by real-life Bills.

      We women do. Our mothers, our sisters, our daughters. All of us.

      And this is not a once-in-a-blue-moon occurence, no, it’s something we have to live with.

      Having this knowledge is extremely disturbing, so to cope, we tend to put it aside, bury it and talk about other stuff, things that aren’t so threatening. Or real.

      But we need to address it, it’s crucial to our survival – literally.

      And this is the reason for the in-depth discussions about Bill.

      And this is the reason we do it about a fictional man.

      And this is the reason we do it on the Internet.

      Because it’s safe here. Pretty much, at least.

      With love,

      • 97 Dan
        February 15, 2010 at 10:16 am

        I am very sensitive to womens’s fears. You don’t know me. This is the Internet. I did not expect that kind of reaction, so apparently I am not sensitive enough. I should have known better since I have been in a relationship with a woman who had a very difficult life with men. It never seemed to leave her and I felt helpless in trying to help her heal from it. That relationship had an impact on me, big time.

        I apologize for touching a nerve. I will refrain from mentioning Bill’s name again.

        • 98 morrissa
          February 15, 2010 at 11:19 am

          Dan, I have to say that I’m disappointed in you. I begged you not to take this personal and explained to you why, but you went ahead and made it personal anyway.

          Again: this is not about you. This is about the world-wide abuse of women. And, btw, calling this huge social problem “touching a nerve” is quite offensive.

          WHO (World Health Organization):
          “Gender-based violence, or violence against women (VAW), is a major public health and human rights problem throughout the world. VAW has profound implications for health but is often ignored. WHO’s World Report on Violence and Health notes that “one of the most common forms of VAW is that performed by a husband or male partner.” This type of violence is frequently invisible since it happens behind closed doors. Moreover, legal systems and cultural norms often do not treat it as a crime, but rather as a “private” family matter or a normal part of life.”

          And so on.

          • February 15, 2010 at 11:35 am

            OH NOES.

            I think the exchange you guys are having is representative of why the whole Bill subject generates the kind of debate that it does. And it is an important debate, and violence against women is an important issue that is not just a women’s issue…it’s everyone’s problem.

            It’s important that everyone can lay their feelings on the table and I hope (!) we have the kind of open environment here where that can happen.

            I would hate for anyone to feel that they can’t say what they want to…and yep, this is the internet and sometimes the way things read in print isn’t they way they would come across in person. So let’s try to give eachother a bit of leeway 😉

      • 100 walgigi
        February 15, 2010 at 12:22 pm

        [I would hate for anyone to feel that they can’t say what they want to…and yep, this is the internet and sometimes the way things read in print isn’t they way they read in person. So let’s try to give each other a bit leeway.]

        I agree that sometimes what we read in print isn’t always understood as were meant to say. This is a very sensitive theme and I agree with you 100% about it, Morissa. But I also think that Dan did not intend to be offensive, because he also share with us how this affect his life and his relationship.


  16. 101 Dan
    February 15, 2010 at 4:04 am

    BTW: I certainly despise Alan Ball as well, for what he has done to the show.    This mutual agreement with just about everyone on this blog is one the reasons I keep coming back.

    He is so overrated.

    He has one great work on his resume: the screenplay for “American Beauty.”
    Sam Mendes directed and the film won plenty of Oscars.   Ball either won, at least nominated, for the screenplay.  1999, right?   So HBO gives him Six Feet Under, which was good, not great.
    So I think his credibility going into True Blood was over inflated.    He has been so fortunate that he got Anna, at a time in her career where she needed to move away from comic book roles, and sell some sex appeal with her brilliant acting skills.  And probably more fortunate for the male talent.   

    I just watched “Big Love”. That show is damn good, but no one watches it.  The  “A” team of HBO writers are clearly working that show.   I don’t think it’s run by a egotistical dictater.

    • 102 walgigi
      February 15, 2010 at 11:28 am

      Dan!!! I also watch “Big Love”! This season is better than ever!!!!! (Barb is going to have a “hot scene” with Tommy whoa!!) Also Chloe Sevigny just won a Golden Globe for her role in it. It’s indeed a very proffessional show.

      (…and I also agree with you about everything you said about AB)

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My ramblings on the Sookie Stackhouse books, and the HBO series True Blood. Everyone I know is already half crazed with my plot and character assassinations, conspiracy theories, theme explorations and general obsessing, so now I'm going to share it all with you. Spoilers and Viking worship are rampant...you have been warned!

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